Curse

jaibas17 · Nov 27, 2005, 01:54 AM // 01:54

ok, here are some observations i have been making in CA, (competition arenas) as im always testing new builds of mine here and there:

For the ones been attacked:

1.- aoe is the abreviation for (area of effect). It consists on makina an attack over an area, in order to cause damage to the corresponding target

when to stay attacking someone over the AOE:

you got a monk, they dont got way of healing, your damage output is higher than their damage output

when NOT NOT NOT to stay on the AOE

any other time!!!

2.- spiteful spirit is really nice, except when you got it on you. a warrior with weakness and spiteful spirit is NOT gonna have a higher damage output than the -37 per hit you are doing to yourself and nearby party members

3.- scourge healing on monks is bad, bring always a condition and hex removal

4.- warriors: bring quick condition removal: on CA, it is highly unprobable you are gonna get a monk, say less a decent monk with condition and hex removal.
ways to overcome conditions: plague touch, purge conditions, antidote signet, remove conditions

5.- a basic skill bar in CA must consist of 7 skills AND REZ SIGNET. if you dont have rez signet, 1000 faction or 1 skill point will do

6.- trying to kill enemies that over: aegis, wards, stances are potentially harder to kill: and there are many ways to overcome this:
warriors have stance removal and ways to attack targets that block attacks,
AOE on the ward and it will be harder for them to decide wether stay or not in the AOE

for the attackers in case to encounter any target that hasnt read this guide and/or is a newbie:

1.- any farming build that has a high damage output will work on tombs, as hardly people will stay out of AOE

2.- conditions/hexes are the way to go, as people hardly removes these

3.- spiteful spirit is the best necro elite on CA. no doubt it can also be called newbie farmer

4.- mesmers: if any monks are present, you got a lucky day today

5.- a good illusionary mesmer will mostly overpower a common warrior, combine with any way of inflicting weakness for more help

6.- we all love when rangers use healing spring

7.- find a way to stop getting distracted!!

8.-stances are pretty way to stop some damage, and self heal can be also

9.- if you are the minion master: please bring somehting to get your fiends again

10.- if the minion master is on the other side: kill him! the minions will turn to their own team if ou get far enough from them

11.- move away from teammates with spiteful spirit please

any more tips coming soon

if any mods close please give format to this list, as im not native english speaker

audioaxes · Nov 27, 2005, 03:02 AM // 03:02

here's a more simplified guide:

1 bring a res sig, use it right away if someone dies
2 target monks first (in some cases kill of the mesmer/necro first)
3 if your build sucks, modify it until it doesnt suck
a few pointers on some sucky builds:
-a warrior who bringings any melee evasion stance, healing hands, or spells that dont really flow with allowing them to wack a caster to death
-monks that dont heal or prot, get a clue already: you'd be lucky to get 3 wins as a pure smiter but can get 10 straight wins with a half decent protection build
-monks dont waste your energy on stupid spells that dont really flow with healing your team (yes this means you shouldnt bring firestorm, backfire, obsidian flame, and the other myriad of spells ive seen monks use)
-monks, there are better builds than using mending and orison.... it shouldnt be hard to find something halfway decent
-if you dont heal or prot your team, you should be loaded with tons of offense and not tons of self defense (rangers with 3 evasion stances + storm chaser with no real dps ftl)
-people run away from warriors, bring a sprint and/or snare
-non healing casters need some kind of way to live longer than 10 seconds against a warrior wacking them when they dont have a monk
-if you are a warrior you should have a melee weapon
-necros, dont bring animate corpses as a throw in spell

Ollj · Nov 27, 2005, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Newbie arena?
You will only see me as a blood necro there.

All the spupid vampiric-mending-max-armor warriors and players that target the other monk no mattter what just deserve to get drained to death within seconds!
All the idiot ranger runnes, drained to death.
Monk and elementalist enchantments are tasty.

And its WRONG WONG WRONG that you must have a res signet:
Vengeance is the way to go!

15 blood
11 curses
11 soul reaping

Blood Renewal
Life Siphon
Spiteful Spirit / Life Transfer / Order of the Vampire / Well of Power
Unholy Feast / Enfeebling Blood / Enfeeble / Well of Blood
Insidious Parasite (it works)
Strip Enchantment (for mending, air attunement and arcane echo)
Parasitic Bond
Vengeance (thats what i have soul reaping for!)

i know this build sucks, but its perfect against all the CA scum!

Maxiemonster · Nov 27, 2005, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Most importantly: NEVER play a Ranger in CA. They always own my Monk, and they're all bullies!

audioaxes · Nov 27, 2005, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

Newbie arena?
You will only see me as a blood necro there.

All the spupid vampiric-mending-max-armor warriors and players that target the other monk no mattter what just deserve to get drained to death within seconds!
All the idiot ranger runnes, drained to death.
Monk and elementalist enchantments are tasty.

And its WRONG WONG WRONG that you must have a res signet:
Vengeance is the way to go!

15 blood
11 curses
11 soul reaping

Blood Renewal
Life Siphon
Spiteful Spirit / Life Transfer / Order of the Vampire / Well of Power
Unholy Feast / Enfeebling Blood / Enfeeble / Well of Blood
Insidious Parasite (it works)
Strip Enchantment (for mending, air attunement and arcane echo)
Parasitic Bond
Vengeance (thats what i have soul reaping for!)

i know this build sucks, but its perfect against all the CA scum!

So what do you do when you dont have a monk

JR · Nov 28, 2005, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

i know this build sucks...

Yep, well done.

Elrodien · Nov 28, 2005, 12:02 PM // 12:02

I love playing in CA, its great just jumping in and seeing who you end up with. Sometimes you get a good 15 wins run (that I had last night with a modified IWAY W/R build) and sometime you see some uber-silly builds that make you laugh out loud.

My advice: Always bring a Rez and always bring a self-heal or defensive spell/stance/skill. oh, and have fun.

ecirbaf · Dec 16, 2005, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Can we continue this thread, possibly without posting specific build, which is not the point, and with a good attitude (no l33t comments thanks) ?

I've had my first evening of PvP yesterday as a Monk/mesmer.

I'ma newbie to PvP so I'll just post some thoughts, random observations :

First reflex of course was to run when warrior attacked me.

Thankfully I figured out after 1-2 matches that which some simple skills like Protective Spirit I could keep myself alive for quite awhile even without moving. In fact, the main issue I found out was energy. As long as I had energy I could take a lot of beating.

Quote:

4.- mesmers: if any monks are present, you got a lucky day today

I m not sure quite what that means, but maybe you refer to mesmers 'shutting down' monks ? I figured there was something better than the Res Signet, and found to my dismay that my resurrection SPELLS were being interrupted by the mesmers.. :P

Maybe the Res Signet is a better choice, since some mesmer interrupts only deal with Spells.

I've noticed that people dont use many "DOTs" (damage over time), but enough to warrant taking some protection, mostly for myself.

People like to throw off DOTs apparently more of as a distraction, they dont kill you straight away, but they stress you out, and while your busy looking at your health... you're not helping the team. I started using Contemplation of Purity and with 1-2 hexes and 1-2 enchantments,.. WOW it does heal a lot.

Instead of using WoH I tried Mark of Protection. Only one warrior kept beating at me during one of my first matches... but after that the more experienced just left me alone and switched target. One good combo was MoP on myself while a warrior ran on me, and then Res Signet on nearby ally. Another really funny and lucky maybe opportunity was when a warrior went straight for me early in the match, and with MoP on me, he was directly assaulted by 2 allies and pounded down. I figured monks can be a really good BAIT as well

.. but I've noticed good players dont immediately rush for the monk.

What else ? I've found as a monk keeping oneself alive even when being beaten on is not difficult.. but it's mostly a question of available energy. So energy management is important. I love being a Monk/Mesmer though I'm not sure Channeling is the best choice. I've gotta try Ether Feast maybe..

Speed boosts for running seemed not necessary, after all.

PACIFY : as a prot/healer monk I found this is a great skill.. BUT unfortunately it requires coordination as I expected... several times I cast it and allies broke the enchantment by hitting on the enemy. I call the skill when I used it but to little avail. However it helped me quite a few times, with (newbie) warriors running for me, I used it when I saw that allies where busy elsewhere. It also was useful when only me and another ally where up, this way I could Pacify one of the two opponents which was not targetted by my other surviving ally. All in all seems a good skill but I'm betting that even with TeamSpeak it's difficult to coordinate it with the team. So I stopped using it.

Quote:

any more tips coming soon

Please add !

Do you have tips for targetting efficiently foes/allies ?

More generic tips / observations :

- I'm not sure but I think foes can not throw projectiles through obstacles so using scenery to block line of sight can be an advantage.

- similarly, this seems rather basic, but I think a lot of people forget about you for awhile when they dont see you directly on their screen, despite being a red dot on their radar

Elrodien · Dec 16, 2005, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Some intelligent observations there! Monking in the 4v4 arenas is hard due to being the called target 99% of the time. But then, its a great way of teaching you the skills you need to survive in the bigger arenas. Survival is key actually, if you can out-survive your enemies monks, then you have won the game.

You do need some sort of anti-tank skill to help you stay alive though in CA and TA. Pacifism is one I have tried, but casting time stinks, imagined burden is good but you need to put a good amount of att points into illusion for it to be any use. Guardian is used a lot in tombs and I reckon it could help here as well.

If you are a Monk/Mes and dont mind dropping an Elite, u could use Sig of Midnight. Should work lovely vs a stoopid tank. Painful to lose a monk elite though...........

Zobi · Dec 16, 2005, 11:18 AM // 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecirbaf

Maybe the Res Signet is a better choice, since some mesmer interrupts only deal with Spells.

I assume you have never seen Leech Signet or Cry Of Frustration?

Most Mesmer interrupts affect spells, but there are some that affect Skills/Signets also.

Leonof · Dec 16, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

I frequently CA and these are my tips for newbies

- CA is random, don't expect much
- Do your job and try to play with the rest of the team. You are only as good as the rest of your teammates.
- Learn while you play, try to see what everyone else is doing, allies or enemies. You'll get better in time
- Builds are the way to go, don't just go in without a plan
- See what build everyone else is playing, if you play a build that beats the ones that are currently being played, you have a better chance of winning
- If you are experimenting with a build, don't expect to win. it might look good on paper but it might not work out as you want it to. Like audioaxes said: if it sucks, make it so it doesn't suck
- It isn't always 'attack the monk first'. If you can tell that the monks sucks, or you can kill faster than the monk can heal, then kill something else first (preferrably someone who is more dangerous).
- Please please bring a rez signet
- The only time I don't bring rez is when I play a monk. Because as a monk I'm suppose to keep people alive, so when somone in the team dies, part of the blame is one me. I'd rather keep everyone else alive while they rez the dead guy.
- Not dying is not a form of winning. Talking about runners and these lame builds that have like 3 stances and healing spells. Very annoying and really pointless, they have pathetic offense and they think they are invincible because no one can kill them.

That's all I can say. There are a lot more things to learn but some lessons are better learned by yourself than from others

Sofonisba · Dec 16, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecirbaf

I m not sure quite what that means, but maybe you refer to mesmers 'shutting down' monks ? I figured there was something better than the Res Signet, and found to my dismay that my resurrection SPELLS were being interrupted by the mesmers.. :P

What jaibas meant, was that if you go in as a mesmer in CA, you WILL be targeted first... unless you have a monk on your team, in which case of course the other team will probably attack the monk first. Which makes you "lucky" because you will be able to do your thang with less hassle.

About res sig/vengeance vs resurrect/rebirth/restore life: Hmm... one set brings someone to full life, one set takes forever and a day to cast and brings someone to a pitiful sliver of life. I always have the sig!

If you're a Mo/Me, throw in a little Mantra of Concentration, and even the Distracting Shot and Leech Signet are worthless for a bit.

(You don't even need any points in Inspiration for it to be effective!)

Mahanaxar · Dec 16, 2005, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Trappers seem to be the new flavor in CA.
Every second match I find a trapper with a staff.
So, bring any form of conditions removal...I especially love plague touch to kill them with their own conditions (my faction farmer in CA is a w/n sword+virulence).
Usually they are really owned, because the average CA trapper is a noob who think he can kill everything with his 0wnz0rz tr4ppz0rz.

And don't keep attacking the monk. 9 monks out of 10 in CA are selfish assholes who cannot keep their teammates alive. So, if you see a monk casting tons of defensive self-enchantments, just switch target and kill mesmers/necros/eles.

tigernz · Dec 16, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

A couple of pet peeves of mine in CA:

On the lava map: If the other team has a good monk don't spend the entire time trying to kill him if he has good self-healing or kiting - find an easier kill and take that down. Lost too many battles because of teammates who were stuck with the mindset of "must kill monk first" and spent the entire time pounding on the monk while the rest of the enemy team had free rein to do whatever they wanted. Ele's and mesmers often lack good defense so take them out fast (just make sure one person is still hassling the monk to prevent them helping out)

Use your res sig use it right away. So many times I see someone wait till they're the last one standing and with about 10% life left before they try to res. Get your teammates back up asap and they can help you out.

Warriors: Don't try to go toe-to-toe with IW mesmers, aura bombers and touch rangers. They're all set up to destroy warriors, yet warriors still seem to love taking them on 1 v 1.

Bring a self-heal and some damage. You can't rely on teammates to do either of the above. Debuff & shutdown builds are great, but if you get teamed with other debuff characters it's gonna take a long time to kill anything. Still take your debuffs, but make sure you have damage too.

And my final peeve: Don't leave as soon as the map loads just because you don't have 1 x monk, 1 x warrior and 1 x whatever else it was that you wanted in your party. Some of the best runs I've had were with the most unlikely of teams - 4 x mesmers, 2 x mesmer, 2 x necro...your team is what you make of it.

Mahanaxar · Dec 16, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrodien

If you are a Monk/Mes and dont mind dropping an Elite, u could use Sig of Midnight. Should work lovely vs a stoopid tank. Painful to lose a monk elite though...........

A guildmate uses a strange monk/mesmer build with pacifism and sig of midnight+spirit of failure to use enemy tanks as batteries.
And works pretty good in CA.

ecirbaf · Dec 16, 2005, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Ele's and mesmers often lack good defense so take them out fast (just make sure one person is still hassling the monk to prevent them helping out)

Most of the time...

One of the things I tried early on is to drop a LIFEBOND at the beginning of the match on a lightweight armoured ally (typically elementalist, or mesmer, or the other monk). I think it's one of the easiest way to help without even having a clue how to play your monk.

Quote:

I assume you have never seen Leech Signet or Cry Of Frustration?

Good point. Thought CRY OF FRUSTRATION didnt work on signets for a bit.. argh.

I've considered MANTRA OF CONCENTRATION only it's one skill slot invested for Res alone. All my other skills cast pretty fast.

Quote:

The only time I don't bring rez is when I play a monk. Because as a monk I'm suppose to keep people alive, so when somone in the team dies, part of the blame is one me. I'd rather keep everyone else alive while they rez the dead guy.

I still haven't made up my mind whether to take res or not. Early on I didn't and found that allies res'ed themselves fairly well.

Thinking of it.. the monk may not be the best suited to take beating during the long cast duration of the resurrection spells / signets.

Oh, what is the use of the number in people's names ?

eg:

R/W20 Uvw Xyz (1)

I can see that corresponds to the order in the party window, but other than that ?

Maybe it's meant as a quick reminder for people using keyboard shortcut to target party member ?

Del12 · Dec 16, 2005, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

if your build sucks, modify it until it doesnt suck

I like that quote.

Well, this guide to help newbies is great...now if we can get them to read forums.

JR · Dec 16, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecirbaf

Oh, what is the use of the number in people's names ?

eg:

R/W20 Uvw Xyz (1)

I can see that corresponds to the order in the party window, but other than that ?

Maybe it's meant as a quick reminder for people using keyboard shortcut to target party member ?

If you need to call something on vent about a target, like a certain skill they are using, or where they are going, you can just say "Six is doing whatever", instead of having to read their maybe annoyingly long or even Korean name.

Hildi · Dec 16, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Here is another tip for all you Paladin lovers out there, instead of bringing mending/heal breeze or god forbid Healing Hands, bring Healing Sig for all your healing needs then Succor and Life Bond for a monk, if you get so lucky, or another soft target on your team. Also, if you have 2 soft targets, it is much better to cast succor on both of them and just forget about Life Bond.

ecirbaf · Dec 16, 2005, 11:35 PM // 23:35

I have tried Team Arenas after Competitive Arenas, and it was frustrating at best. I swear there was 1 or 2 mesmers in each team I faced. My monk was being constantly interrupted.

Apparently the other people in my team have no idea what damage the mesmer is doing to their team, and so instead of getting the mesmer down they waste time on the enemy's monks or others. :/

All the while, they have absolutely no idea that I am being interrupted, and contrary to them, I am all for supportive role, so I become completely useless.

Fun !